Why would God (through Scripture) have specifically instructed wives to submit to their husbands, and not include a specific instruction for husbands to submit to their wives - if egalitarian marriages was what He wanted?
Why Would God…
MzEllen – Resolved, to live with all my might, while I do live.
…as of first importance…that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures
Suzanne
Abraham was told to obey Sarah.
Ellen
One man, in one situation (in one covenant) was told to obey his wife.
In the New covenant, wives are told to submit to their husbands. If you cannot answer the question, it's okay to say so.
Ellen
Here are a couple of points.
* Sarah was able to give her opinion.
*Abraham obeying her was not the norm, otherwise God would not have had to tell him to listen to her.
* In the New Covenant, Sarah was praised for obedience - why was this considered a good trait for a wife?
Suzanne
Ah, this teaching of submission is only for the new covenant. Actually, when Abraham wanted Sarah to do as he asked, he appealed to the HESED relationship that they had between the two of them, not to giving an order.
But, definitely, if you want to teach something more restrictive in the new covenant than in the old, you must do as you are convicted.
Ellen
Um...wow. I have to admit this is the first time that I've seen anybody refer to the Old Testament as an example of more equality. Especially since when it was time for Abraham to find a wife for his son, he bought one.
Have you considered the possibility that when Abraham appealed to HESED it was because he was giving her to another man, an act so despicable that he appealed to emotional blackmail to accomplish it?
But then again, we have another logical fallacy (at least it's either a new one or one I haven't detected yet.)
A debate about Old vs. New Covenant is but a red herring.
The referral to Abraham was descriptive, not prescriptive.
The referral to HESES didn't have anything at all to do with Abraham's instruction to hearken onto Sarah later on.
Now, let's try to stick to the question, please?
Why would God (through Scripture) have specifically instructed wives (that is plural, not written to Sarah) to submit to their husbands (that also is plural, not written to Abraham), and not include a specific instruction for husbands to submit to their wives - if egalitarian marriages was what He wanted?
Again, if you don't have an answer for Paul's instructions, it's okay to say so.
Suzanne
Now, let’s try to stick to the question, please?
I always have Ellen, you just don't like my answers. I am not up for an interrogation.
HESED, the word is hesed, kindness. When was the last time you heard a sermon which said that kindness is God's standard for a relationship? Just think of, you would not know at the end of the sermon if it were preached by a complementarian or an egalitarian. Wouldn't that be marvelous.
Ellen
I'm so sorry, will you please remind me where you said why God never specifically instructed husbands (specifically)(plural) to submit to their wives?
Love is God's standard for relationships. Love one another. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the church.
If you listen to Mark Driscoll's series on marriages - in particular the one directed at the husbands, he pulls no punches about the responsibility of love.
There is a difference.
And I truly appreciate your appeal to Abraham's appeal to hesed. In today's vocabulary, it's basically:
Honey...sweetie...I'm afraid for my life. If you really love me...here's what you'll do. First lie for me. Tell these guys you're my sister. Don't tell them you're my wife. Oh, wife of my youth...if you really love me...go sleep with this other man. This is the way you can show "hesed".
Contrast this with Paul's writings: husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
- Please lie for me...
- I'll die for you...
Which is hesed?
Suzanne
Good luck, Ellen. Who knows, maybe you will meet the man who makes it all work for you.
Ellen
Maybe I have.
Suzanne
Shalom, Ellen. We are both blessed to have our jobs - very similar. I work with children, some with Down's and others hearing impaired, autistic, etc. Some of the time they are in the classroom, but also in my class, reading, playing with the dolls' house, learning technology, etc. Its a great job - no doubt about it.