Author Archives: MzEllen

•

This entire post is "borrowed" from "This Side of Glory" via "He Lives". Resources are listed with the original post.

Mimi mentioned the confusion over Mormon theology back here, and so it seemed as good a reason as any to look into it a little more.

So here’s the Nicene Creed as we say it every week, as Christians have said since the 4th century to express what we believe. As this author notes:

The Nicene Creed is the most widely accepted and used brief statements of the Christian Faith. In liturgical churches, it is said every Sunday as part of the Liturgy. It is Common Ground to East Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, and many other Christian groups. Many groups that do not have a tradition of using it in their services nevertheless are committed to the doctrines it teaches.

I’ve marked up the Creed as a Mormon would have to in order to fit their beliefs (as near as I can figure out — see my remarks at the end), and I’ve got footnotes in case you think I’m making this up. I tried to use Mormon sources whenever possible.

There are some other notes of interest that follow the footnotes, and also a challenge that I have for any Mormons who might read this.
*****

We believe in one God, the main God of a number of Gods(1), who acquired His place as Supreme Being over a long period of time by living a righteous life(2), the Father Almighty, Maker one of the Makers (3) of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible (and Who is married, by the way) (4);

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, one of the spirit children of God (Lucifer being another), (5) the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father (6) by whom all things were made: Who won God’s favor by agreeing with God’s plan of salvation when Lucifer disagreed,(7) and who was called Jehovah in the Old Testament(8).

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary, (9) and was made man, and was married at the wedding in Cana (10);

And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;

And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;

And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father in the celestial kingdom, the highest of the three kingdoms of heaven;(11) And He and Joseph Smith (12) shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;

And we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. in the Mormon Church, which restores Christianity to the form it had in the time of the apostles.(13)

We acknowledge one Baptism – for both living and dead – (14) for the remission of sins as long as that baptism is conducted by the Mormon Church (15)

We look for the Resurrection of the dead which will be presided over by Joseph Smith,(16)

And the Life of the world to come. And Joseph Smith. (17) Amen.

• 8 Comments

•

I think that it was White Horse Inn where one of the gentlemen noted that doctrinal creeds not only united Christians - they were written to divide.

They were written in response to something and emphasizes beliefs that oppose the errors that were (mostly) considered the most

The Apostle's Creed laid out beliefs that refuted Gnosticism. The original Creed of Nicaea was written to combat the heresy of Arianism. Why?

Because it is vital to divide those who hold to Biblical Christianity and those who do not.

If we do not identify that which is wrong, it is more difficult to follow that which is right. It's why I talk to my kids about what I believe is wrong doctrine.

It's why I blog about doctrine.

It's why I believe that, as this election cycle really heats up, the idea of what constitutes "Christian" will become a very valid question in the eyes of those who believe in Christ. The question is "who will govern best?"

But there is another question that has little bearing on the election, but that had tremendous bearing on "mainstream" Christianity:

What is "mainstream"

To merely say that "whoever calls themselves a 'Christian' should be considered a 'Christian'" is avoiding real thinking. If a person claims to be a 'Christian', but belongs to a church whose doctrine does not support Biblical Christianity, and that person fully adheres to the doctrine of that church, how can we treat them as spiritual siblings - if they are not?

They should not be treated as siblings, they should be treated as ministry opportunities. And we should be aware of doctrinal differences and not be ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, in presenting the Gospel to those who call themselves Christians, but are not.

• 2 Comments

•

This is a post at "Reformed Mafia":

While apostolic succession is seen by the Pope as that which constitutes the true church, the Reformers saw something in Scripture they believed was central in describing the true church: sola fide.

Luther called justification by faith alone "the article upon which the church stands or falls."

R. C. Sproul pointed out the logic followed by the Reformers:

1)Justification by faith alone is essential to the gospel.

2)The gospel is essential to Christianity and to salvation.

3) The gospel is essential to a church's being a true church.

4) To reject justification by faith alone is to reject the gospel and to fall as a church.

According to Sproul, "The Reformers concluded that when Rome rejected and condemned sola fide, it condemned itself, in effect, and ceased to be a true church."

It was the comment that caught my eye:

Whenever I consider this topic, the Bible's teaching on descent and lineage come to mind. Specifically, it's possible to be a Gentile by birth and yet be truly called a descendant, or son, of Abraham. Likewise, a Jew who could prove his ancestry back to Abe could legitimately prove by his actions that he was instead a son of the devil.

So, even if a church COULD prove its physical descent, or succession, from an apostle (which is a historically dubious claim to begin with) that doesn't speak at all to the issue of spiritual legitmacy and whether or not one is a true heir of the apostles and prophets.

Yes. There are a couple of denominations that claim apostolic succession - but does that "spiritual ancestry" or "apostolic genealogy" mean that they are the "true church", any more than being a descendant of Abraham will bring salvation through Christ to a Jew in the 21 century?

• 1 Comment

•

My kids and I went out to a movie last night (Transformers - I really enjoyed it) and we got done there about midnight. We headed over to Meijer (24 hour supermarket) and felt like we had been dropped into "The Twilight Zone".

The parking lot was full! There were little kids running around! It was as busy as any weekday afternoon!

It was really weird - I go to Meijer late because it's so SLOW!

And...why are those people wearing Halloween costumes?!?!?!

As soon as we got to the door I saw the palettes. And the books. And the lines. And the Harry Potter lookalikes.

At the crack of midnight, the books went on sale and Meijer threw a party (really, cookies and punch)

All I wanted was skim milk and hairspray....

• 1 Comment

•
Thirteen Things
1. Strong tower

2. Lifter of my head

3. Giver of strength

4. Counselor

5. Comforter

6. Best friend

7. Hope for the future

8. Protector

9. Shield

10. Head

11. Mercy

12. Teacher

13. Human

Start your list here! Links to other Thursday Thirteens! 1. (leave your link in comments, I’ll add you here!)

Get the Thursday Thirteen code here!The purpose of the meme is to get to know everyone who participates a little bit better every Thursday. Visiting fellow Thirteeners is encouraged! If you participate, leave the link to your Thirteen in others comments. It’s easy, and fun! Be sure to update your Thirteen with links that are left for you, as well! I will link to everyone who participates and leaves a link to their 13 things. Trackbacks, pings, comment links accepted!

• 37 Comments

•

Candy (MyBlessedHome) wrote about the same Roman Catholic documents that I did, only added distortions about what Rome actually teaches. I vehemently disagree with the Roman Catholic Church on many issues, but there are enough Biblical issues to discuss without adding falsehoods.

So I (knowing that the comment would be deleted) wrote a comment that asked Candy to write only truth. I much prefer to have a discussion on the site, but that would involve discussing and with all comments disagreeing simply disappearing without even the common courtesy of an explanation...that leaves this and I hope that some of her readers make it here.

Two points I made were that the Vatican does not teach that all will go to hell that are not inside the Roman Catholic Church. Rome DOES teach that it is possible to be saved in another denomination, but that the union is imperfect or damaged.

The other point I made is that "vicar" does not have Greek roots meaning "anti"...Candy (and she posted a rather interesting link to "prove it") says that vicar = anti (in Greek) = Vicar of Rome = Antichrist. The Greek word for "anti" is "ante" and the Greek used for "Antichrist" is "antichristos".

"Vicar" comes from Latin and means "substitute" - the Vicar of Christ (Bishop of Rome, who Roman Catholics call "Pope"), means that the Vatican teaches and believes that the Pope is Christ's appointed substitute in place while Christ is not physically on this earth.

Here is the website Candy referred us to (you decide if it is credible)