Author Archives: MzEllen

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Very few people care about defending the doctrine of God against those who teach heresy. Adn those that point out the heresy are not welcome.

I've never believed that a person can lose his or her salvation - there are too many passages that indicate that Christ cannot lose one of His own. So the last straw in leaving my Arminian church was when my kids and I were talking about their childhood and I asked if they remembered the moment that they "got saved". My son could tell me where he was, what he had been doing, who was there.

My daughter said, "What do you mean? Do you mean the first time, or all the other times?" The surety of her salvation (to her mind) depended on how many times she had "gone to the alter" - this was the consequence of this bad doctrine.

What are the consequence of having "relationships" with those who deny the Trinity?

James White says (In "The Forgotten Trinity):

True worship must worship God as he exists, not as we wish Him to be. The essence of idoloatry is the making of images of God. An image is a shadow, a false representation. We may not bow beforea statue or figure, but if we make an image of God in our mind that is not in accord with God's revelation of Himself, then we are not worshiping in truth. Since sin and rebellion are always pushing us toward false gods and away from the true God, we must seek every day to conform our thinking and our worship to God's straight-edge standard of truth, revealed so wonderfully in Scripture.

(page 195) Look at the "gospel" message of every single group that denies the doctrine of the Trinity. You will find error and perversion in every group. Why? Because the true Gospel must be based upon the work of the one true and triune God. Without that basis, the Gospel cannot stand. Look at Mormonism, which denies the pillar of monotheism: the Gospel becomes the means of becoming a god. Look at the Witnesses: the Gospel is a mere appendage, a message of how we can live forever in a paradise earth. Such is what happens when the Redeemer becomes Michael the Archangel, and the Spirit becomes an impersonal active force. And in the Oneness groups the Gospel becomes legalism, replete with "necessary" things one must "experience" to be truly saved.

Bad doctrine has consequences - twisting the Gospel to fit our own desire about how it should look - has consequences.

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I had thought (my bad) that Elena had a passing knowledge of the religion of the adherants that she was defending.

Elena said (in her post on Discernment), "...a Christian is faced with lots of opinions and situations that may seem like they are "good" on the surface, but the truth is they are really not "Christian" values. One has to be able to discern what is true and what is not.

This evening, Elena spent some time here on this blog

I offered the "Friendship with the World" award (after Elena offered me "Mountain out of a Molehill" She agreed that the award ..."would be fine Ellen."

Among her comments:

I know how to discern between what is true and what is false. (8:47)

After a week of vigorously defending the ability and willingness of all women in the blogospere to discern and recognize false teaching, Elena said:

The amount of what I could tell you about what mormons believe wouldn't even take half a minute! I honestly don't know much about them at all.

and

I simply don't care. I also don't care what it means to be "Reformed" vs. "truly Reformed." Just not interested.

and

I don't have to know Mormon doctrine to know Christian doctrine. One only needs to know the truth to be able to discern a lie.

Prior to this exchange, just after Elena graciously accepted my "Friend of the World" award, I followed up with this:

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Here is my point: If you don't know the Bible well enough to know that "Friend of the World" is not a good thing - how are you going to know it well enough to see when false doctrine from other religions is slipped in?

Or, if you don't know (or care) what other religions teach, are you going to know (or care) when you are exposed to their teaching?

Do you know (or care) that when you stand shoulder to shoulder (or keyboard to keyboard) with a Mormon and praise Jesus...Do you know (or care) that one of you is praising the spirit-brother of Lucifer?

When you stand in prayer together with a Mormon, do you know (or care) that one of you is praying to a being that once was as human as you are today?

With that, I'm done. I will answer comments to this blog, but only if the commenter demonstrates an interest in knowing the doctrine of the adherants that are being defended.

If you don't know what Mormons believe, don't come here asking me to give them a pass.

"Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself." Ez 33:7-9

...We cannot blink at the fact that gentle Jesus meek and mild was so stiff in his opinions and so inflammatory in his language that he was thrown out of church, stoned, hunted from place to place, and finally gibbeted as a firebrand and a public danger. Whatever his peace was, it was not the peace of an amiable indifference."

This t-shirt is part of their message:

"ARE YOU BRIGHT ENOUGH TO BE A TARGET?"

How bright does your light shine? Are you the "City on a Hill? (read these lyrics, they say something important - given the last week, this is a new song, not yet recorded).

I went to a concert with my kids (and a spare) last night.

The first band was really bad. The second wasn't good. The third band was "interesting". They list their style as "tribal" and they sound sort of like "middle eastern- punk" with an accordian.

The fourth band is the band we went to see.

This band is brothers, their dad is manager (but the blonde is not related, he just plays bagpipes and mandolin).

They have a message. Their "Amazing Grace" is quite something. It was also something to hear a room full of teenagers singing. I could tell those who sang the meaning. Half the kids rolled their eyes and moved to the back of the room. The other half got up on the stage with the band and stood shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm.

Before their last number, the leade singer (all 6 feet, 9 inches of him) talked for a few minutes about Jesus and following Him. Those who know Him: walk it. Those who don't: accept Him.

But here is what he ended with: Do the right thing. Don't back down.

Here are some of their lyrics:

My favorite (been there, done that have the t-shirt):

An eye for an eye, and everything in between,
an eye for an eye, and we’ll pay the price.
An eye for an eye, you defied your maker,
an eye for an eye and we’ll all be blind.

And I like this one, too:

We’re the scallywags of Archer Street, we don’t know when to quit
We go to shows, we sing out loud, we scuttle every pit.
But when it comes to praisingGod we always bow our knees,
We go to Him, we sing out loud, it’s him that made us free.

From the depths of Sheol to the heart of shalom,
we will stand strong together, we will never be alone.
Fill our cups full of courage, may our face hit the floor,
when we are at our lowest point, we stand at heaven’s door.

They are pro-life

FIGHT TO LIVE

It’s not a kid, it’s just a thing, selfishness is the song you sing
It’s your body, it’s your choice but the life inside you have a voice
The news has pulled your pride wall down
Now you’re not the stud in town
You gave him life don’t kill the child
just because your pride’s defiled
Fight to live fight to save a life
The life you gave this child within her
He’s a gift not a curse

So be a man don’t be a quitter
Protecting life is so much better
be a man don’t be a quitter,
fight, be a man don’t be a quitter
just because this child’s within her
be a man don’t be a quitter

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There are a lot of parallels...

These people came to my church.

The latest flap around the "girl blogs" erupted.

1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

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I named names - along with the problems with doctrine.

So did a Godly woman on line.

2 Timothy 2:15-18 Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth..."

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I went public

She went public

Acts 20:31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

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I said, "We should not be having a "relationship" with these people. They are false teachers and we shouldn't be having them in our pulpit."

She said, "We should have discernment and wisdom when visiting their blogs"

Matthew 7:15
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

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I was told "We just don't see what the big deal is."

She was told "We just don't see what the big deal is."

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

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Accusations were thrown around. There is a lot of heat.

My daughter is standing up (I'm a proud mom) for right doctrine. And we take a lot of heat for that.

Some of the heat is on line.

My daughter and I are taking heat in real life. A couple of women have lectured me about being "Spirit-filled."

Manda is having fingers pointed at her: "they're the ones that are trying to ruin the spring break trip."

For us, standing for truth and discernment has been very real-life and has cost us.

We've got a whole lot of Christians...

standing shoulder to shoulder with the "ones who call themselves Christian but who believe in another Jesus" accusing their spiritual siblings of "legalism".

We have Christians attempting to silence those to call them to discernment

There are three characteristics here (I'm speaking only on this issue, we all know that we have different characteristics at different times)

1) Stand up for truth - even if it's hard. Name names, just like Paul did.
2) Tell those that stand up to shut up.
3) Be silent, say nothing, be safe.

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2 Timothy 4:1-2: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction."

Here is the problem: Mormons are attempting to pass themselves off as Christian.

Here is the BIGGER problem: Christian women are helping them. (Where is the Godly leadership of husbands?)

Matthew 12:30 "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

Gordon. B. Hinckley, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said: "We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Marla said: And if we are so concerned with love, let us love by being truthful rather than muddling the distinctions between blogs of Christians and those of sects that have broken away from Christianity, so that seekers and newer Christians aren't taken captive into deceptive philosophies (sound familiar?).

And her readers said:

I think your discernment award is pathetic and you can delete this if you want.

You give Christians a bad name.

you are the most UN-Christian person I have ever met.

the words you post on your blog reflect negativity and a bitterness of soul that I do not care to read

I (Ellen) say that persecution strengthens a person. It's just really sad when it comes from other Christians.

Elena's readers said:

IMHO- the only people who are afraid of outside ideas are those who are
insecure with their own place in the universe.

Thanks for keeping us all thinking and on the path to enlightenment. (this was written by a Mormon woman)

Elena asks: 3. Who died and left Marla Swoffer the queen of the blogosphere?

I (Ellen) say that those who are "prepared in season and out of season to
correct, rebuke and encourage
" do not consider themselves "queens" — they consider themselves faithful to God.

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I commented on a blog today and received a reply about missionaries.

The lesson that the following family learned before going to the "mission field" was (my words) "share the love, but not the Gospel".

What a difference from Jesus' disciples!
Luke 9:2 and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

And the early Christians!
Acts 8:4 Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

I would submit that a Christian is to serve God, serve the body of Christ, but preach the Gospel to the lost to the lost.

In short, This family was put into the mission field. The father's job is flying planes, delivering medical supplies to a closed country. The family received training in what is and is not appropriate about their "mission". The children that their mission is to interact with other children in a way that reflects the heart of Christ for a people who do not know Him... They weren't called into the mission field to preach but to serve.

My habit (gets me into trouble a lot - with other Christians) is to go to the Bible.

The word "serve" is used 279 times in the NIV. Serve God, serve in the army, serve as a priest are the majority. The people of God are condemned when the serve other gods. In other places the NIV speaks of the people of God serving other people of God. In still other places, the people of God are punished by being taken into captivity to serve other countries.

In the New Testament, the word "serve" is used often:

Romans 1:9
God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son...

Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature ; rather, serve one another in love.

Romans 12:7
If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; (note: this does not tell us to go and serve, but not share the Gospel)

Ephesians 6:7
Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, (note: this is instruction to slaves serving their master's)

Philippians 2:22
But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.

Preaching, on the other hand...
Jonah 1:2
"Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."

Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Mark 6:12
They went out and preached that people should repent.

There are many more, I'd suggest that you visit Biblegateway.com

This is in the context of blogs belonging to Mormons. There are some that say that we are only "stopping to visit", or sharing, or any number of things - but not preaching the Gospel.

I cannot find anywhere that the Bible tells us to "visit", but not preach the Gospel.

But, that's just me looking in the Bible...

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Can we really just visit a blog and share only part of our lives? Especially the part that is supposed to permeate every fiber of our beings?

"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers...

For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?

Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

What accord has Christ with Belial?

Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?

What agreement has the temple of God with idols?

For we are the temple of the living God;

as God said,

"I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.

Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,

and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,

and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty."

2 Corinthians 6:14-18

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My daughter and I went to "youth night" at church and we worshipped together in "her" setting.

The speaker was a little nutty, but good. At one point he broke people into four basic groups (we all fit into all four groups once in a while)

1) VIP's (very impactful people)
2) VTP's (very teachable people)
3) VNP's (very nice people)
4) VDP's (very draining people)

The two that struck me over so many "controversies" are #1 and #3.

There are a few folks out there who are VIP's who are ready to take on hell with a squirtgun.

Then there are the VNP's who say, "I'll bring the cookies."

The ones who are exhort others to at least acknowledge the battle, "Come'on! Hell's creeping in on us. Go get your sqirtgun!" And the ones who exhort, "please-can't-we-all-just-get-along!"

Which would you rather be?
(VNP can also be "Very Non-Productive)

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This is response to a question on another blog about how to decide who is Christian and who is not:

Once upon a time there was a man that lived on a planet called “Kolob”, not so very far away. It came to pass that this man lived a good life and became a god; he came to another little planet called “earth” with his wife that he had married on his home planet.. In their exalted states, this god and his wife gave birth to “spirit children”; the first-born was Jesus – later would come Lucifer, along with many other "spirit children".

The “father-god” was concerned about the future salvation of humans on this new planet and he had a planned. One of his sons (Jesus) agreed with the plan. The other son (Lucifer) did not agree and rebelled, convincing a large number of (pre-human) spirit-children in heaven to side with him. As punishment, the father-god cast Lucifer out of heaven and made Lucifer’s followers into demons, who could never, ever be born as humans(1). Another large number (although not the remaining) of spirit-children sided with Jesus and would be blest to be born as Caucasians. The remaining spirit-children (who had not taken sides) would be born in the line of Cain, as non-Caucasians (black people).

These spirit children remained in heaven, to be born as humans – their race and location depend on the choices that they made in heaven in this great spiritual battle.

Some of these people moved to a place far across the ocean. A group of people from a place called Babel settled in what we now know as Central America(2). Another group, called “Jews” also came to this new place(3). A man named Nephi led these Jews. They divided into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites who fought each other. The Nephites were defeated in 428 A.D. The Lamanites continued and are now known as the American Indians.

The father-god’s plan of salvation included the spirit-child, Jesus. In order for the father-god’s plan to work, Jesus needed a body. So the father-god used a girl named Mary, in a process that is as natural as our own birth(4), to give birth to Jesus.

Jesus was born, got married (to three women: Mary, Martha and Mary Magdelene) and had children. At the end of his life, Jesus began to atone for the sin of man (but not personal sins) in a garden(5). After he began the work in the garden, he finished his work on a cross. After Jesus died on the cross, he arose from the dead after three days. During the time between his death and resurrection, Jesus’ spirit was in the spirit world, where the souls of the dead wait for their own resurrection, to be reunited with their bodies. There, he ministered to the “righteous spirits, training them to teach other (sinful or ignorant) spirits – extending his ministry on earth into the spirit world.

After Jesus was resurrected, he went to minister to the Nephites in America. He appeared before a congregation in their temple, and allowed them to feel the wounds in his hands and feet, staying with them for several days, teaching and healing.

For 1800 years, this father-god was quiet. Then(6) the father-god(7) appeared to a boy(8) and revealed to him that religion, as he knew it, was wrong – all of it. Teachers, churches, creeds and beliefs were all abominations. The angel told the boy that he had been chosen to translate a very special book that was written on tablets of gold. Four years9 later an angel(10) appeared and told the boy to begin the work of translation. As the boy translated, a prophet(11) appeared to him and ordained him to restore the “true church”

The story on these tablets was amazing. The story (as related by this boy) was the account of ancient people who came to the Americas, people from Babel and Jews who were fleeing persecution in Jerusalem. According to the boy (now a man), his translation of this book is more doctrinally correct than the Bible(12). He even boasted that he did more than Jesus to keep his church together(13)!

The boy (now a man) published this book(14) and started the one “true” religion – a religion that was so outside of orthodox Christianity that the church was driven from town to town. As the religion grew, so did its doctrine.

Just like the “father-god”, all humans have the potential for becoming god, with their own planets (like earth). One of the father-god’s prophets(15) said, “As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." When this prophet said, “man…”, he meant exactly that. Women cannot be saved unless they are married to a “priest(16)” in this new religion.

Another teaching of this new religion was that the spirit-children in heaven could only be exalted (with the possibility of becoming a god themselves) if they were born into human bodies and that a man’s glory in heaven depended on the number of babies he had fathered. This meant that adherents of this religion must have as many babies as possible. In order to do this, polygamy was essential. This effectively reduced women to mere commodities. One follower of this religion said, "I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow(17)."

Folks, this is Mormonism. Either Mormons believe their prophets and doctrine (and all of this story), or they believe that their prophets and presidents were wrong.

Full references and bullet points