The meeting went very well. There are still some concerns on my part, but I'm content with the general direction the church is headed.
I asked if I were the only one who had brought forward concerns - the answer is no, there were a lot of concerns brought up in small groups that Sunday and they were addressed in church the week that we were out of town.
I asked the pastor if he had looked at the Firehouse Family Ministries website and he told me that he didn't even know they had a website. I explained what I had found and gave him a printout of my post from here. Ok...
He also told me that our church did not know, when the work team headed for New Orleans, who they would be helping. The context of the work team was that they were working through another evangelical disater relief organization. The "hookup" with Firehouse was not planned ahead of time.
He could somewhat anticipate my questions because of all the concerns brought up by others.
No, we are not "going all Pentecostal"
No, we are not going "word faith"
No, we are not going "Five fold ministry"
Parts of the service were not expected - the Shelton's had come to give a "thank you" message.
Yes, the pastors are, at their core, very reformed (I ate dinner at the "all church supper" with Pastor Brian with a couple who is new to the church - they decided that there were things in Roman Catholic teaching that are not in the Bible so they left that religion - and we talked about "election" for about 45 minutes)
We went over what I discovered by just poking around and he agrees with what I found, other than his take on "language barriers" - sometimes the words that we use "sound like" what other people are using, but we don't mean the same thing. Yeah. Then don't use the words that have been co-opted by heretics.
There are big plans for our church and they are definitely talking about a singles ministry! Brian asked me what I thought would be the best route to take - a ministry that targets specific needs, or a general social group? I told him, why not both? with our small group system in place, a single person could have their social needs met, while addressing specific needs in a small group setting that targets their circumstance.
Anyway, there were a couple of other things (minor) that we talked about and I left feeling pretty good about the whole thing.
😉
Gina
I am glad to hear it went well.
Phil
1) I'm proud of you. Well done.
2) This does not explain their inexcusable poor discernment in letting someone take the pulpit without so much as inquiring about who they are. Any pastor worth so much as an intern's pay should know by now that the church has people like the Sheltons pushing poison wrapped to appear as truth. A pastor is supposed to be one who protects the sheep from wolves and other predators, in addition to feeding. I cannot comprehend that a "pastor" (let alone two of them in your large church) invited this man to take the pulpit and feed sheep without even so much as checking out his background or finding out about him.
It's amazing how many ministries hold standards that are even stricter than the Bible when it comes to "protecting" the flock from would-be pastors who aren't qualified. Yet here the church did no due diligence at all in researching who they put in the pulpit.
After holding the pastors to such a high standard of personal righteousness that it takes to become a pastor, I wonder if the church will hold as fervently to the Scriptures about when a church leader sins? 1 Timothy 5 says that such a one should be rebuked publicly (assuming he doesn’t come forward and ask forgiveness first) so that others may learn. This is a big screw up, but also a big opportunity to teach the fathers and junior leaders in the church about discernment and responsibility.
Gina
I tend to agree. I am very surprised that they did not find out more about their theological and doctrinal beliefs before allowing them to speak in front of your church, especially when such information is just a google search away. And, the fact that she calls herself Prophetess might have been the first clue
Ellen
Phil: thanks 😉
Phil and Gina: I know. I have many of the same feelings, but mine carry a LOT of frustration as well.
In my heart - I like my church. There are parts that I don't like (like this).
Sometimes I think that Pastor Brian is largely uninformed about the internet. His statement that he didn't even know they had a website kind of threw me - I found it in less than a minute. But that's also what I thought, knowing how he has talked about his computer ability in the past.
If I didn't have that internet resource, I wouldn't have known that they call themselves apostle and prophet - I would have only been able to go by what they said.
If the folks that went out on the work team are not spiritually discerning (and we don't exactly teach that) they wouldn't have picked up on it either (the building was pretty much trashed and there was no literature - and they're not open about their Trinitarian beliefs; I picked up on it because I'm familiar with the language from other studies).
The church is a puzzle, for sure. There are reasons to leave, but there are reasons to stay also.
I very nearly wore out my welcome on the singles thing a couple of years ago - how close do I want to dance to that edge?
On the other hand, how close can a church dance to the edge of heresy before they slip off the edge?
Milly
I'm praying for you on this. It's so difficult when you don't agree with something in your church home. Something happened at my church that rocked many of us. I'm not one to stay silant.(even being COC) I called for someone to step down from their position, I yelled in front of a lot of people at the minister about one of the people involved saying have you read what she wrote? You don't come out looking too good nor do the others, then went to an elder because he too was a part of it. I was ready to walk. It started over someone doing a small thing and being fired. It grew because of the men and some wives into a huge thing. For a while I would cry over the fact that people I loved and respected did that. I finially spoke to an elder who was not a part of the gossip ring he explain what had happened. One thing that I realized was that we all even those that aren't supose to make mistakes. I spent a lot of time praying for God to show us what to do. What I wanted those men to do didn't happen what God told me to do was let it go.
I find it hard to understand how we can send people to help people and not know a bit about who they are. Not saying that we shouldn't help them we have helped Katrina folks who don't worship the same way we do.
I think that shaking things up and asking questions is healthy. Our minister preached on that he's all for it. Good news for me.
God knows where he wants you to be could be he wants Ellen to shake them up! You go girl!
Blessings!
Ellen
thanks, Milly.