Author Archives: MzEllen

EDIT AS OF 3/29/2014 - this page is no longer online.  I'm taking out the bad links, but leaving the information and credit.
Here are the Harris "Complete Commenting Guidelines":

"Commenting for "Newbies"
(A "Reminder" for the Rest of Us)

About the Authors:Alex & Brett Harris have competed for four years in high school speech & debate, including policy and value debate, persuasive platform speaking, limited preparation categories, and even interpretative events. Over the past two years they have combined for 5 national titles, making it into final rounds over 18 times. They have been contributing authors to several debate sourcebooks and have coached high school speech and debate clubs in Oregon, Washington, and Maryland. They currently co-author the blog The Rebelution.

It is crucial to a vibrant and healthy comment section for participants to understand the purpose of discussion, and to possess a proper respect for their fellow contributors. Whether you maintain your own blog, comment on other blogger’s posts, or both, you have most likely been frustrated by the lack of proper argumentation and the seeming epidemic of disrespect, primarily among your opponents (Insight #1: They feel the same way towards you).The truth is that we all can use a helpful reminder every so often as to how we should conduct ourselves in the high-intensity role of “the commentator’s commenter.”For that reason we present, “Commenting For ‘Newbies’ (A ‘Reminder’ For The Rest of Us),” as an invaluable resource for bloggers and their readers; an aide-mémoire, if you will. Yes, logic, evidence, and respect still exist and can be realized—even in your comment section.The Purpose of ArgumentationCritical to proper argumentation is an understanding of why we argue; we argue in hopes of persuading dissenting opinions to conform to our own. If we disagree, it is because we think we are right and others are wrong. We take the time to discuss our disagreements in hopes of proving the validity of our views. It is frustrating, therefore, when we find ourselves perpetually clashing with our opponents, while making seemingly no headway towards our goal of changing their minds.In fact, at times it can feel as if, were we to publicly claim that rabbits exist, our opponents would deny it; even if one hopped up, said, “What’s up, Doc?” and starting burrowing into their heads. How do we get past these confounding doldrums and arrive at a place from which the discussion can progress in an intelligent manner?Here are three steps to improve your skills of argumentation:

Step One: Remember that your opponents have come to their conclusions using more or less the same rational process you have. The difference is not necessarily their intellect, but rather the information they had at their disposal and the values they hold.

Step Two: Understand that this means your opponent feels just as confident about the accuracy of his or her position as you do about yours, and will only be persuaded otherwise if you prove that their information or values are out of line.

Step Three: Realize that successful argumentation will only take place when you make it your goal to inform and persuade, by supplying additional bits (or chunks) of information and by addressing the values behind your opponent’s conclusions.

 

 

Eight Principles for Logical and Respectful Discussion

The key to respectful, profitable argumentation is to respect others and to be respected. You respect others by acting civilly and arguing reasonably. You cause others to respect you by not acting like a fool in your manner or in your argumentation. Here are eight principles that allow you to do both: NUMBER ONE: Understand the ‘classical’ view of tolerance. The classical view of tolerance lends itself much more readily to intelligent argumentation than does the modern view. It teaches that, while we may strongly disagree with dissenting opinions, we still treat the person behind those opinions with respect.

DO feel free to disagree, even strongly, with other people, and say so!
DO feel free to permanently demolish opposing viewpoints. (Good luck!)
DO NOT attempt to demolish opposing “people.”

NUMBER TWO: “No ‘ad hominem’ attacks, you moron!” Nothing more quickly degenerates a discussion than when people start attacking those making the arguments rather than refuting the arguments themselves. Remember that the character, circumstances, or political ideology of the person has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the proposition being defended.

DO NOT stoop to name-calling (moron, idiot, etc.)
DO NOT imply negative monikers onto people simply because they disagree. (i.e. “Anyone who’s even slightly intelligent will believe that cows are people too.”)

NUMBER THREE: Eschew Obscenity & Prohibit Profanity The use of inappropriate language and shocking statements is a sure sign that the author lacks the ability to communicate their position in a calm and reasonable manner. It shows tremendous disdain for others and will not be allowed on respectable blogs.

DO NOT be upset when your comment is deleted for inappropriate language.
DO NOT be upset when you IP address is banned for multiple offenses.

NUMBER FOUR: He who asserts must prove. This is one of the most critical aspects of proper argumentation and requires that you carefully guard yourself from making groundless statements. Every proposition should be supported by either logic or evidence. Logic includes everything from complex syllogisms to plain ol’ cause-and-effect. Evidence can take the form of examples, statistics, and/or quotations from authorities in the field. Supported arguments stand until refuted. Unsupported arguments do not deserve a response and might as well not exist.

DO feel free to confirm other people’s points without providing additional support.
DO NOT make additional arguments or publicize your disagreement with someone else’s position without providing adequate support.

NUMBER FIVE: Respond to the argument, not to the spelling. There is no surer sign of inadequacy on the part of a debater than when they take issue with some small “error” on the part of their opponent, while ignoring the main point/s their adversary is trying to make. If you are unable to refute your opponent’s position, don’t insult his or her spelling, grammar, or insignificant deviations from fact. Your opponent is most likely correct, and their small errors have nothing to do with the overall truth or falsity of the proposition they defend. Don’t make a fool of yourself by being a sore loser.

DO feel free to point out significant errors that impact the validity of a claim.
DO NOT point out errors solely for the purpose of embarrassing your opponent.

NUMBER SIX: Debating When Less Is More. A common tactic adopted by inexperienced debaters is to ask a long series of questions that place an enormous burden on their opposition, without actually making any particular point. Such an approach is not only unfair to your opponent, but it really isn’t argumentation at all. These kinds of “question avalanches” can hardly be responded to in the confines of a comment section, but will often foster animosity. The same is true of those with too much time on their hands (or a gift for speed writing) who present far too many arguments at one time in hopes of “burying” their opponent under the supposed “empirical” weight. Both of these abuses inhibit true argumentation and inevitably degrade the quality of a discussion. Respect yourself and your opponents at all times by using moderation in your argumentation and questioning.

DO feel free to ask pertinent and probing questions about your opponent’s position.
DO NOT expect answers for loaded questions.
DO NOT ask loaded questions.
DO feel free to make powerful and relevant arguments against your opponent’s position.
DO NOT expect answers to your 5 page tome.
DO NOT write 5 page tomes.

NUMBER SEVEN: Do your own research. Remember that your opponents are busy people who are taking time out of their day to discuss relevant issues with you. Do not place an excessive burden on them by requiring them to go “off-site” to read lengthy articles or study ancient philosophers, scientists, etc. If Aristotle makes “your” point then “you” should be able to make the argument. Your opponent certainly will not (and shouldn’t have to) make it for you.

DO feel free to provide links to outside sources for your opponent’s consideration.
DO NOT expect your opponent to read them unless you make them want to. (i.e. “If you go read Maxwell’s five-foot bookshelf, then you’d agree with me!” never works)
DO feel free to support your arguments with outside resources. Just make sure you summarize what the resource says. Otherwise your opponents will consider your argument unsupported until they go read/see the support. Which they most likely never will.

NUMBER EIGHT: The fallacy of the majority. When the majority of participants in a discussion hold your position, it is common to start acting as if the last seven principles no longer apply to you. You feel you can destroy the dissenter, along with their position, since you have so many like-minded chums. However, the majority has no more right to silence the opinion of a minority through disrespectful, improper argumentation, than the minority would have, if it were able, to silence the opinion of the majority using the same methods. Victory by means of respectful, logical argumentation is true victory. Victory by any other means is no victory at all. DO feel free to destroy dissenting opinions using respectful, logical argumentation.
DO NOT silence dissenting opinions by majority “piranha attacks.”

NOTE: Provided that proper credit is given to my twin and me, the preceding guidelines are freely available for use by any bloggers wishing to do so. May they serve you well. Soli deo gloria!

When you've finished reading these guidelines, you can either go back to the main page, go to my "Personal Objectives and Expections" or "Blogging with Gentleness and Respect.

 

 

(I turned off comments on the page, but if you want to comment, the post directing you here is here.)

PART ONE: personal rules

So...my "rules to blog by" - the first section is what I hold myself to...Obviously, I can't hold another blog by these rules, the "your" is generic language, applied to myself)...The goal is not to squash debate, the goal is to have reasoned, Biblical, and polite debate.

  • Don't fight attitude with attitude. While it is never fun to have offensive language used against me (or my "side" of the debate) it is not right (in other words, it's a sin) to respond in kind. No matter what has been said to or about you or your faith, it is never nice to respond to the other side with (in short) "you trust [whatever] more than the Bible [or God]." Proverbs 15:1 "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."
  • Don't use your blog to advertise debates or to recruit debaters with the intention of winning a debate with a majority, or simply overwhelming the original blog to the point of exhaustion. Flooding a blog with brand new readers and commenters sounds like "the fallacy of the majority"
  • Don't cut others that you are debating with by name in your own comments section. Reading such things about yourself, such as "they are so steeped in hatred...that their hearts are hardened..." and "They have the storm windows battened down against the Holy Spirit." are deeply hurtful and do not help your cause. If you do write about a debate on another blog, do it factually, not making character judgments.
  • Don't say things to others on their blog that you would not say to their face (the above words illustrate the point) If you would not say things like these to other bloggers to their face, don't use them on their blog. If you would not say things like these to bloggers to their face, don't use them in public forums, behind their back.
  • Don't use another blog (that you don't agree with) as a springboard for your own apologetics - especially if you know that you have a tendency to get overly-passionate (this one was a hard one for me to learn). There are a couple of exceptions
  • When differing opinions are specifically asked for - and even then only if you are a known commenter on that blog.
  • When I see another person’s character slammed - I will say something.
  • When I know that the complaint is about me and I was never asked the question to my “e-face”, only complained about.
  • When I am in agreement with the host blogger, and again, only if I am an known commenter on that blog

AND THE "DO'S"

  • Do "be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, " If you/I need to, write "gentleness and respect" on an index card and stick it to your/my monitor - this is vital when dealing with somebody who goes for a reaction and pushed your buttons.
  • "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." Use it.
  • Do not go beyond what is written. Do remember that catechism (Westminster Larger, Roman Catholic, whatever) is not Scripture.
  • Seventy times seven. If another repents for their bad behavior, be ready to accept that, forgive them and not hold it against them. This is one place where a person can have doubts about their faith, or the faith of another; the Bible clearly spells it out: "but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses
  • Do be the first to repent of bad behavior "So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift." There are limitations on-line. It is frustrating to offer a sincere offer of changed behavior, only to have that offer ignored. Be comforted - if they do not forgive you, God will not forgive them.
  • Put God first, give Him the glory. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might." Do be passionate, but not mean.

SUGGESTIONS ON HANDLING BLOGS

  • Don't be afraid to use moderation. If a person is consistently personal, ask them to stay on topic. If they refuse, warn them that they will be moderated and/or their comments deleted.
  • Do follow through on that.
  • Don't be afraid to tell the ones that you agree with that they're stepping over the line.
  • Do follow through on that one also.
  • It's good to have rules ahead of time: Elena posted a while ago on the Harris twins, who have written "complete commenting guidelines". It's a great blog and even if you don't use the guidelines, I'd suggest you stop by and visit the boys.
  • Whether there is a debate or not USE LINKS! (This is where I mess up - it's not out of maliciousness, just forgetfullness. The other thing I forget is to link to the actual post, not the home page). If it's a good thing you're linking to, it's nice to send folks to other people's blogs. If it's not so nice, it's still kind to give the other person a "heads up", even if you know (or especially if you know) that person reads your blog.

When you've finished reading "Personal Objectives and Expections", you can either go back to the main page, go to my "The Harris Twins' Commenting Guidelines," or "Blogging with Gentleness and Respect.

2 Comments

I get this devotional in my email every day...this day stuck out.
Title: Not Ashamed

Author: Woodrow Kroll
Esther 3:2-4

"And all the king's servants who were within the
king's gate bowed and paid homage to Haman, for
so the king had commanded concerning him. But
Mordecai would not bow or pay homage. Then the
king's servants who were within the king's gate
said to Mordecai, "Why do you transgress the
king's command?" Now it happened, when they spoke
to him daily and he would not listen to them,
that they told it to Haman, to see whether
Mordecai's words would stand; for Mordecai had
told them that he was a Jew."

...continue reading

5 Comments

We sang this in church this morning - read the words; sometimes we sing on "autopilot" and miss the deep meanings of these old hymns.

And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior's blood!
Died He for me who caused His pain!
For me who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

Tis mystery all: th'Immortal dies!
Who can explore His strange design?
In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine.
Tis mercy all! Let earth adore;
Let angel minds inquire no more.

'Tis mercy all! Let earth adore;
Let angel minds inquire no more.
He left His Father's throne above
so free, so infinite His grace!
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam's helpless race.

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature's night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray;
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine;
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th'eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.

Stolen from JettyBetty


3 Things That Scare Me

  • hearing firetrucks and ambulances right after my son left with the car
  • the thought of my parents dying
  • losing my kids

3 People That Make Me Laugh

  • Phil
  • Tom
  • Amanda

3 Things I Love

  • God
  • My family
  • My friends

(3 more that don't have personalities)

  • walking barefoot on on soft grass
  • vacations
  • knowing that my homework is done!

3 Things I Hate

  • Gossip
  • yeah - Gossip
  • running out of toilet paper

3 Things I Don’t Understand

  • Why God chose to save me
  • Why those black dots show up next to my sidebar
  • Liberals

3 Things On My Floor

  • Books
  • Garbage (in a bag ready to be taken downstairs
  • The catpan

3 Things I’m Doing Right Now

  • blogging
  • making a shopping list
  • drinking (more) coffee

3 Things I Want to Do Someday

  • Marry
  • Get my college degree (finally)
  • Fit in

3 Things I Can Do

  • Smile
  • Tyep! withuot typso! (LOL)
  • Pack a great travel bag (will have to learn to do those carry-ons without liquids I suppose)

3 Ways to Describe My Personality

  • Intense
  • Strong
  • Steadfast

3 Things I Cannot Do

  • Cartwheels
  • Diet
  • Ski

3 Things I Think You Should Listen To

  • The Holy Spirit
  • Godly Counsel
  • Common sense

3 Things I Think You Should Never Listen To

  • Hateful lies
  • "you can't do that"
  • My own insecurity

3 Absolute Favorite Foods

  • Chocolate
  • Sushi
  • Lasagna

3 Things I’d Like to Learn

  • To be GOOD at Greek
  • Spanish
  • PhP

3 Beverages I Drink Regularly

  • Green tea
  • Water
  • Coffee

5 Comments


Thirteen Things that MADE ME SMILE THIS WEEK

  1. Getting enough grants and scholarships to cover most of my tuition!
  2. My son being able to pay for his entire tuition in CASH!
  3. New shoes (definitely new shoes) 😉
  4. "All that & caramel" ice cream (Breyer's) with chocolate topping
  5. A very nice comment from a very nice person (he knows who)
  6. Chocolate beer. Yes. See Tuesday's post.
  7. Weather cool enough to use my quilt on my bed at night
  8. Teaching my son how to drive a car with a manual transmission
  9. Getting my son his first car (thus the need to teach him how to drive a stick)
  10. Knowing that Thursday is my last day of work this week
  11. Knowing that we'll only have 3 students on Thursday!
  12. Having my (birth) kids meet my (class) kids for lunch with the "gang"
  13. Paying for my daughter's tuition (that was something that I hadn't planned on, but it means another semester debt-free for her)

Links to other Thursday Thirteens!
1. Jenny Ryan

2. Wolfbernz

3. Geggie

4. MInTheGap

(leave your link in comments, I’ll add you here!)

Get the Thursday Thirteen code here!The purpose of the meme is to get to know everyone who participates a little bit better every Thursday. Visiting fellow Thirteeners is encouraged! If you participate, leave the link to your Thirteen in others comments. It’s easy, and fun! Be sure to update your Thirteen with links that are left for you, as well! I will link to everyone who participates and leaves a link to their 13 things. Trackbacks, pings, comment links accepted!

2 Comments

Is it a bad thing to buy your son a car that rolled off the assembly line the same year he did?

Yeah...a 1988 Saab 900. (ok, so Tom was born in 87, but cars are made the year before their model year.

I - YES! ME! I taught my son to drive a stick! (everybody should know how to drive a stick.) I took him to the campus where I work and told him that yes, he would stall. I told him about my learning experience and gave him the basics. And then I just let him drive. Everybody but maintenance goes home at 3:30 so it was quiet and he did really well.

He's a little disappointed because I don't want him to drive it in the city until he's a little more confident with shifting - and it doesn't have a license plate yet - I can't get a copy of the insurance, so I can't get a plate.

But I think he's happy...

So am I.

3 Comments

What a yummy topic! Fetch a cup of hot cocoa and enjoy the lineup for this week's Carnival of Beauty; the Beauty of Chocolate:

Amanda from following an unknown path makes a few chocolate confessions.

Keziah decides that chocolate is actually good for our bodies and souls! Read "The Beauty of Chocolate: The Divine Drink" at her blog, "A Woman who Fears the Lord."

After giving up chocolate for two years in a row for Lent, Michele at Chasing Contentment has a new perspective on her favorite food and her Cocoa Haze.

Loni at "Finding JOY in the Morning" shares the Beauty of Chocolate as a sign of pregnancy when she cannot eat chocolate .

"It calls, so we dance then at the dawn I need bigger pants." Blair has great difficulty finding the beauty in Chocolate. To her it is an epic battle between moderation and overindulgence as she scribbles The Lure of the Cocoa Bean.

Deb at Mountain Musings recently ate her first Dove Dark Chocolate and discovered it was good for your health but then decided to stick with her daughter's often-baked chocolate delights. Read more in "Got Chocolate?"

And last, Ellen at MzEllen & Co. waxes historical in "mmmmm...chocolate...", remembering that people have been enjoying chocolate for 2,000 years!