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Jay Adams calls "apologizing" the world's unsatisfactory substitute for forgiveness.

"uh...sorry"..."that's ok." That is apology and it's not repentance, and it's not real forgiveness.

There is another question that parallels "what is forgiveness".

What does forgiveness DO?

What makes "forgiveness", "forgiveness"?

Is it a feeling? No - Scripture says nothing about "feeling" forgiving. Scripture tells us to forgive.

Eph.4:32 tells us, "...forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

The "as" gives us a model. Strong's gives the definition

1)according as
...a)just as, even as
...b)in proportion as, in the degree that
2)since, seeing that, agreeably to the fact that
3)when, after that

What does Scripture tell us about God's forgiveness of us? Does He simply sit in heaven and "emote"? No, He gives us a promise.

Isa 43:25 "I, I am he who blots outyour transgressions for my own sake,
and I will not remember your sins.

Jer 31:34b For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

If forgiveness were merely a "feeling", we could not rely on this promise.

If forgiveness were merely "forgetting", it would not be a purposeful relinquishing of the debt. I can "forget" my keys. But the Almighty Creator of the universe cannot forget anything. It is a commitment to not recall, not bring it to remembrance, not to bring it up, remind, mention or record the offense.

If I make that promise to forgive - to not bring it up again - and I do, that is breaking a promise. I went through a really rough time with my daughter a couple of years ago. That which was done is no longer between us - and the repentance/forgiveness process works.

We went through this book. I DID bring it up again and my daughter (as my sister in Christ) reminded me of the promise. I had my own repenting to do. The process works.

Forgiveness is a promise.

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What I read in Genesis 1 and 2 is that God created male and female differently and He treats them differently and (where instruction is given to specifically men or specifically women) He many times gives them different instruction.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is not mentioned in Genesis 1. In Genesis 2 we are told that Adam is given instruction independently of Eve - before she is even created. This infers that Eve was dependent on Adam for instruction. This was before the fall. The first recorded instance of a woman learning from her husband is from before the fall.

Also before the fall - God proclaimed: Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Eve was created differently - out of man. Man and woman are created to be two parts of the whole.

In Ephesians, Paul (inspired by the Holy Spirit) writes,

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

This reference to before the fall comes at the end of one of the longest passages in Scripture instructing (specifically) husbands and wives.

In that last sentence that I quoted, the word for "respect" is φόβος - phobeō. From which we get the word "phobia" - to fear. Strong's also gives the definition: c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience

Does the context of the word indicate that wives are to live in "fear" of their husbands, or that they should treat them with deference?

Especially give that a related word, φόβος - phobos is used in the same chapter of Ephesians.

...submitting to one another out of reverence (φόβος ) for Christ....

The "mutual submission" clause. We need to decide whether this statement rules out what follows, or whether this statement is explained by what follows. I believe that the statement is the instruction, what follows is the application.

We see that a general instruction of "submit to one another" is here, but then there are the specific instructions to husbands and wives that are different. Husbands and wives are instructed differently.

Why?

...it refers to Christ and the church ...

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From "A Defense of Calvinism" by Charles Spurgeon

Sometimes, when I see some of the worst characters in the street, I feel as if my heart must burst forth in tears of gratitude that God has never let me act as they have done! I have thought, if God had left me alone, and had not touched me by His grace, what a great sinner I should have been! I should have run to the utmost lengths of sin, dived into the very depths of evil, nor should I have stopped at any vice or folly, if God had not restrained me. I feel that I should have been a very king of sinners, if God had let me alone. I cannot understand the reason why I am saved, except upon the ground that God would have it so. I cannot, if I look ever so earnestly, discover any kind of reason in myself why I should be a partaker of Divine grace. If I am not at this moment without Christ, it is only because Christ Jesus would have His will with me, and that will was that I should be with Him where He is, and should share His glory. I can put the crown nowhere but upon the head of Him whose mighty grace has saved me from going down into the pit. Looking back on my past life, I can see that the dawning of it all was of God; of God effectively. I took no torch with which to light the sun, but the sun enlightened me. I did not commence my spiritual life—no, I rather kicked, and struggled against the things of the Spirit: when He drew me, for a time I did not run after Him: there was a natural hatred in my soul of everything holy and good.

The "T" of Tulip...

Total depravity of man.

It is not that each person is as utterly evil as they could be, it is that each person is born with a sin nature that touches every part of their being. With totality, it is impossible for them to reach out to God, unless the Spirit touches them first. Unless they are called, nobody seeks God.

  • Romans 7:18 - For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
  • Romans 3:10-11 - as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.
  • Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
  • Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
  • (from) Genesis 8:21 - for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth...

Westminster Confession of Faith:

Q. 25. Wherein consisteth the sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell?

A. The sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell, consisteth in the guilt of Adam's first sin,[93] the want of that righteousness wherein he was created, and the corruption of his nature, whereby he is utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite unto all that is spiritually good, and wholly inclined to all evil, and that continually;[94] which is commonly called original sin, and from which do proceed all actual transgressions.[95]

I (Ellen) can say that I know that without God speaking to me, I would not run after Him.

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In the creation account in Genesis 2, the animals were formed out of the ground. As was Adam.
Adam (as the animals were) was created out of the dust of the earth that God had created out of nothing...and Eve was created out of Adam. Eve is the only creature that was created in this way.
Elsewhere in Scripture we are told "he [man] is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man." Yes, this is not a creation account, but Scripture does give us the sense of men and women being differently.

Men and women were certainly created differently, they were given different jobs and they were told different things after the fall.

When husbands and wives are given explicit instruction as husbands and wives (beyond the general instruction that we are all given), in many passages, husbands and wives are told different things, they are given different direction.

Scripture treats men and women differently.

Why? I believe that Scripture is trustworthy and tells us what God wants us to know. God wants us to know that He created men and women differently, He treats them differently and He gives them different instruction in Scripture.

In Genesis 2 we are given another creation account; a more detailed story of the creation of man and woman.

v. 15...man was put into the garden with a job to do - to work it and keep it.

v. 16 and 17, man was given the instruction to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

v. 18. God proclaims that it is not good for man to be alone and further proclaimed that He would make a helper suitable for him.
v. 19 and 20, God showed man every animal and man named them...but there was no counterpart for Adam.

v. 21. It is only AFTER Adam was created and AFTER man was given responsibility for the garden and AFTER Adam was told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and AFTER he had named all of the animals...

AFTER all of that, THEN God put Adam into a sleep and formed his wife from his rib.

and

v. 24 God tells us, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

THERE IS A DISTINCTION BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN. In the jobs they are given, in the roles that they play, in the responsibilities that they have and even in the way and time they were created.

God sees us differently and I rejoice in the difference.

In the New Testament (Eph 5), we are given a parallel. After the general instructions to all members of the church, Scripture goes on with further instructions to husbands and wives.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.

We are given, as men and women; as husbands and wives, the wonderful responsibility and privilege of reflecting to the world the relationship of Christ and the church. The beautiful and willing submission of the bride to her bridegroom. The caretaking love of the bridegroom for his beloved.

and God again tells us, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

This is not language that sets men and women up against each other, it does not tell us of a selfishness that demands its own rights. It is a beautiful reflection of sacrifice and submission, love and love, leaving and cleaving. One flesh.

Complementary. Not sameness, but differentness that fits together with created perfection.

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From the outside looking in, it seems to me that Pentecostalism is very "self" centered theology.

There is a lot that is about "self".

"I claim..."

Some teach that if you pray in the right formula, use the right words, then God is honor-bound to give you what it is that you ask for. The Holy Spirit becomes something like a magic genie in a lamp. Rub the lamp the right way and you get your wish.
Some real life examples...

I was at my mom and dad's church on Sunday morning (if Mom reads, please let me know if I get this wrong.) The man who said the public prayer - in the prayer he told the congregation of a situation of a man who is sick or injured (I wasn't very clear which, but God knows).

"Lord, WE claim healing...You promised that if WE have faith you will give us what we ask for."

~~~~~

At work a woman I work with had a cold - and so did I. I took ester-C, echinacea and zinc (my usual "cocktail".) She said, "I'm CLAIMING my healing!" My cold lasted for about 10 days...hers lasted for about a week and a half.

~~~~~

I hear on a pretty regular basis, "the power of life and death is in the tongue, you know!" My reply the first time was "my future is in the hand of a sovereign God who is in control of the universe." After that I let it slip by.

~~~~~

Before I went "reformed", even before my husband died, I remember being on the way to a quiz meet with the kids and one of the church leaders was telling us on the way (in a van) how important prayer is. The reason?

Because without our prayers God is helpless to give us what we need or want. The power of God is released by our prayers.

Now I am Reformed and I find myself seeing how this warped sense of "self" has infiltrated many, many churches. I belong to a sovereign God who is in control of the universe.

The whole of TULIP is wrapped up in the power of God, not the power of "me".

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I spent a while with my parents this weekend and my dad talked a lot about history. Times have changed and we forget how fortunate we are to live in a part of the world where life is taken for granted.

These are the graves of four of my aunts and uncles that died as babies (or young children). The first born died in 1921....(maybe). My grandmother and grandfather lost their first four (maybe five) babies. My dad told me yesterday that somebody in the family has my grandpa's Bible. The page where they recorded deaths is there, but the birth page is torn out. Just gone.

We had some very nice talks...about the past, relatives, time.