Daily Archives: July 1, 2008

Leaders of the Presbyterian Church (USA) overturned a long-standing ban on the ordination of gays and lesbians Friday, providing yet the latest example of a religious denomination struggling with how, and whether, to incorporate homosexuality into church life.(...)

I feel proud of my church today," said Lisa Larges, national coordinator for That All May Freely Serve, an organization that advocates for gay equality in the Presbyterian church.

Larges, who lives in San Francisco and attended seminary there, has fought unsuccessfully for more than two decades to become a Presbyterian minister.

"I think a generational shift is what we are witnessing," she said Friday. "There is a whole generation coming of age for whom acceptance is a given. The church is beginning to experience that sea change."

No...no slippery slope at all...

And no generational shift, either.

This is sparked by a gender debate, but it became a philosophical question for me all on its own, with its own personal application.

There are three words (alphabetically):

  • authority
  • desire
  • will

Authority simply is the means by which to carry out desire or will (or both).

My question ended up being:  what is the difference between a "will" and a "desire"  (I will put "will" in quotes to distinguish which will I will be writing about:  My "will" will win over my desire for chocolate.)

A desire is that which I want.  Carnal urges.  Feeling of "need" for that which is not a "need".

"Will" is the resolve to follow a path, whether or not that path is that which I desire.

Within a church body (my own experience), the board has a "will" that decides the direction of a church.  A congregation member (me) also has a will that believes the church should be heading in a different direction.

The board "wills" that this particular church has no need for a singles ministry.  The congregation member's "will" (a belief that the church should have a singles ministry conflicts with the board's decision.  Who wins?  After examining self, the congregation members sees that the "will" to have a singles ministry is (in reality) a desire, not a need.  The board's "will" will carry the day.  And that's a good thing.


The same church board "wills" that a variety of speakers come into the church for special events - including Sunday morning service.  The same congregation member (me) "wills" that she be in a church where the speakers are in agreement with denominational beliefs.  After examining the speakers and topics, the congregation member discovers that roughly half of the speakers are anti-Trinitarian, Oneness Pentecostals and Kansas City Revival members.  Decides that this is not a mere "desire", said congregation member confronts church leaders.  Getting nowhere, brings the matter to a higher authority (denomination leadership).

The first example is a "desire" for a singles ministry, the second is a "resolve" to see Biblical teaching in the church.

Could this have been different?  Sure, it was tempting to push (against the board) for a singles ministry and it would have been easier to cave in on the speaker issue.

Both of these issue illustrate the "will" within a hierarchy (church government)
How to apply this to on a more personal level?

I can apply it to my health journey in two (and opposite) ways.

I have a desire (want) to be more healthy.  The question becomes, do I have the "will" (resolve) to do what I need to do in order to have that desire met?

In the negative...I have a desire for (want) chocolate.  Snickers to be precise.  The question becomes, do I have the "will" to put down the candy bar and eat in a more healthy way?

Both of these  illustrate a struggle within one's self.

Simply put, my "desire" conflicts with my "will".  That which I should do, vs. that which I want to do.

A "feeling of I-want-to-have-that" vs. a lasting resolve to make it happen.

Within a couple?

I believe that Scripture gives a pattern of male leadership within the church and home.

Desires?  Each member of the couple should put the desires of the other in front of their own.  Desires are like preferences - a desire for chocolate cake vs. strawberry.  Vanilla cone vs. a twist.  Blue carpet vs. green.

"Will"?  A lasting resolve for the direction?  That (in a complementarian vs. egalitarian world), is stickier.  In a godly marriage, both spouses will study together and the direction of the home will be supplied by Scripture.  There are times when this will conflict.  Baptist vs. Methodist.  Infant baptism vs. not.
Slightly bigger, but not insurmountable...Pentecostal vs. cessation.   Reformed vs. Arminian.

These (although with great understanding) I believe that a wife can safely submit to her husband as the church submits to Christ (with limits:  I would not follow a husband to a One-ness church or to an Exclusive Psalmsidy  church.)

Larger issues:

  • A spouse that converts to another religion - I would put this under the second illustration of the church board and me.
  • A husband who wishes the wife to fall into sin.  If there is a difference of opinion of "sin", call the pastor.
  • An abusive situation (no matter which spouse and no matter who is being abused).  There is never a reason for abuse and every excuse is a bad one.

Does the husband have the right to "impose" his "will".

The jury is out.  I tend to think "not" - for the following reasons.

  • to have to impose his "will" means the wife is not being submissive in the first place.  If he is not leading into sin, then the wife is in sin.  If he is leading into sin, then the wife has every right to oppose him.
  • Either way, the path is not open warfare...it is Matthew 18.  And counselors.
  • If the "will" is abuse.  No excuse.  Get out.  Now.  Don't wait.  Not for a ride, not for the kids to grow up, not for another day.

This will not solve any debate; it's about definitions...

(This post is not moderated, but the entire blog is set for all comments to be moderated until I am back from vacation.)

* Exported from MasterCook *

couscous banana pudding - 5 points, CORE

Amount  Measure       Ingredient -- Preparation Method
--------  ------------  --------------------------------
1                cup  skim milk
1/2                jello fat-free, sugar-free banana cream instant pudding mix (3 1/2 ounces) (info is for 1/4 of a package)
1             medium  banana
1         tablespoon  couscous -- whole grain

boil 2 Tbsp . water in a microwave safe container, add couscous and cover.  Meanwhile, mix the 1/2 package of pudding with the skim milk.  When the couscous has absorbed the water add to the pudding mix.

Slice the banana and layer pudding mix and banana slices in bowl or pretty glass.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 285 Calories; 1g Fat (3.3% calories from fat); 11g Protein; 60g Carbohydrate; 3g Dietary Fiber; 4mg Cholesterol; 748mg Sodium.  Exchanges: 1/2 Grain(Starch); 2 Fruit; 1 Non-Fat Milk.

NOTES : This WAS lunch.

Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0